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braidiano
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802.11ac

Hi,

does Ubiquiti will make some 802.11ac equipment in 5GHz outdoor?
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Josh_SPITwSPOTS
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Re: 802.11ac

Maybe
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mhotel
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Re: 802.11ac

I think it would be fair to say that at this point, nobody does.
From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac
Standard finalization is anticipated in late 2012, with final 802.11 Working Group approval in late 2013. According to a study, devices with the 802.11ac specification are expected to become common by 2015
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Re: 802.11ac

Arc wireless has one, Asus has a couple. maybe this is another "draft 802.11n"thing.
-sent via tapatalk
Correction, the arc has beamforming and flextdma, not ac
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mhotel
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Re: 802.11ac

maybe this is another "draft 802.11n"thing.


That was my thought.
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Re: 802.11ac

That was my thought.

www.buffalotech.com/products/wireless/dual-band-wireless-routers/airstation-ac1300-n900-gigabit-dual...
*900 Mbps is the maximum aggregate wireless signal rate derived from IEEE 802.11n standard specifications achievable using three streams of 150 Mbps each on two concurrent bands. 1300 Mbps is the maximum wireless signal rate derived from IEEE 802.11ac (Draft 2.0) standard specifications achievable using three streams of 433 Mbps each. Actual data throughput and range will vary depending upon network conditions and environmental factors, including volume of network traffic, building materials and construction and network overhead. Maximum speed and range is achievable when used with same enhanced mode technology.
†Technology based on IEEE 802.11ac (Draft 2.0) standard specifications.
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rconaway
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Re: 802.11ac

802.11ac with more than 2 streams doesn't work with splitting the polarity. It will be faster overall because of faster processors and 256QAM but it's still 2x2. My guess is about 50% faster overall.
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braidiano
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Re: 802.11ac

There are some 802.11ac indoor router on the market. I not heard about miniPCI card or outdoor bundle.
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ohsROB
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Re: 802.11ac

802.11ac with more than 2 streams doesn't work with splitting the polarity. It will be faster overall because of faster processors and 256QAM but it's still 2x2. My guess is about 50% faster overall.


The numbers that have been released so far indicate we can probably expect 30% improvement in a 2 chain setup on a 20mhz channel.

Were probably 1.5-2 years off a ubiquiti product coming to market with it. The last thing any of us want is a rushed product that underpreforms and is unstable.
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Re: 802.11ac

I can't see any reason why you would WANT to gobble up that much bandwidth outside of the home. Maybe for an airrouter2 or something with gigE ports, and dual band.
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russman
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Re: 802.11ac

Netgear has the R6300 dual band with 5Ghz 802.11ac/N/A, claiming air rate of 1300Mbps.

R6300 Data Sheet

Can't wait to see what UBNT is working on with this. The 256QAM would be nice but have you seen the channel binding with 802.11ac? I'd feel bad for anyone running a city deployment of 5ghz competing with cable providers etc. I was reading about 802.11ac channel bonding of 5ghz spectrum so that one residential AP could use up 160mhz of 5ghz spectrum?!?
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Re: 802.11ac

I'd feel bad for anyone running a city deployment of 5ghz competing with cable providers etc. I was reading about 802.11ac channel bonding of 5ghz spectrum so that one residential AP could use up 160mhz of 5ghz spectrum?!?


That is why you better start using my CPE shields for customers installs for NanoStations/NanoBridges/PowerBridges

Better to get a head start in fending off noise from downstairs!
RF Armor Shield Kits for Ubiquiti M gear
www.rfarmor.com
They really do work!
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Re: 802.11ac

I'm not really interested in the ultra-wide channels in 'ac, just the 256QAM modulation. This could really help with short backhauls/sidehauls and/or backup links. Increased band in 10Mhz channels would be nice.

be under no delusions, for 256QAM you need another 5dBm of SNR, but quite often I can get or have that.
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Re: 802.11ac

256QAM doesn't get you that much of a performance increase. Modulation goes from 72Mbps to I think 86Mbps. Having a faster processor that takes advantage of a 1Gb ethernet port helps too.
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rebelwireless
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Re: 802.11ac

256QAM doesn't get you that much of a performance increase. Modulation goes from 72Mbps to I think 86Mbps. Having a faster processor that takes advantage of a 1Gb ethernet port helps too.


64QAM 3/4rate 20Mhz is 58.5Mbps
256QAM 3/4rate 20Mhz is 78Mbps

That's a 33% gain in throughput. It's essentially 'free'. 1/3 more bandwidth in the exact same spectrum.

Let's call that 45 more paying customers before I have to upgrade a backhaul.

Yeah, I'll take it.
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Re: 802.11ac

Robert J. Pera - CEO
Yeah so, we always are releasing new AirMax hardware, so we recently announced our Rocket Titanium which is our higher end bay station problem and that is security protected. It was just launched and starting shipping now. And then as you see the new standards evolve, the WiFi standards 802.11ac, of course, we will have a new generation of AirMax based on that, so yeah.

Tavis McCourt - Raymond James
So you are not going to redesign of the existing AirMax product line though?

Robert J. Pera - CEO
No, from a product perspective, we think a lot of those products such as our nano-station and rockets and bullets they are pretty much optimally designed for the user experience.

seekingalpha.com/article/800181-ubiquiti-networks-ceo-discusses-f4q12-results-earnings-call-transcri...
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Re: 802.11ac

Multi-user Mimo sounds like the 802.11ac feature I want, I really don't care about anything else if the AP can talk to multiple clients, even better if it can talk to multiple 802.11n Airmax clients simultaneously.
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Re: 802.11ac

Multi-user Mimo sounds like the 802.11ac feature I want, I really don't care about anything else if the AP can talk to multiple clients, even better if it can talk to multiple 802.11n Airmax clients simultaneously.


I just did some reading and found a little enlightenment.

here are the REAL benefits of 'ac' for WISP service

multi MIMO is more than adding spacial streams in different polarities. It adds the ability to have spacial streams as subchannels AND the ability to schedule these subchannels for different clients and provide subchannel separation.

for instance, a 40Mhz channel off an AP can have 8 spacial streams. Those can effectively be polarized into 2x 4stream sets.

The H-POL 4 stream set can subchannel that 40Mhz into something like
5700-5710, 5720-5730, 5710-5720, 5730-5740 and treat them each like a separate channel. some clients can be in each channel and they can be moved around channels seamlessly. The AP's sector can be broken up into up to 8 sections as well, so near channels can be on far side partitions of the sector.

256QAM is a nice bonus, but also 'ac' can have different modulation on each subchannel so you might have a few clients on 256QAM subchannels and others at 64QAM because of signal level. The difference here vs current is that the separate spacial streams are isolating these modulations better, even allowing for marginal clients to be on isolated subchannels and not sacrific performance of most of the other clients.

Pretty interesting stuff!

Now I wonder how ubiquiti will adapt AirMAX to these new abilities of the 'ac' chipsets.
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meno
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Re: 802.11ac

I just did some reading and found a little enlightenment.

here are the REAL benefits of 'ac' for WISP service

multi MIMO is more than adding spacial streams in different polarities. It adds the ability to have spacial streams as subchannels AND the ability to schedule these subchannels for different clients and provide subchannel separation.

for instance, a 40Mhz channel off an AP can have 8 spacial streams. Those can effectively be polarized into 2x 4stream sets.

The H-POL 4 stream set can subchannel that 40Mhz into something like
5700-5710, 5720-5730, 5710-5720, 5730-5740 and treat them each like a separate channel. some clients can be in each channel and they can be moved around channels seamlessly. The AP's sector can be broken up into up to 8 sections as well, so near channels can be on far side partitions of the sector.

256QAM is a nice bonus, but also 'ac' can have different modulation on each subchannel so you might have a few clients on 256QAM subchannels and others at 64QAM because of signal level. The difference here vs current is that the separate spacial streams are isolating these modulations better, even allowing for marginal clients to be on isolated subchannels and not sacrific performance of most of the other clients.

Pretty interesting stuff!

Now I wonder how ubiquiti will adapt AirMAX to these new abilities of the 'ac' chipsets.


Is this beamforming right? including the .ac
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rebelwireless
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Re: 802.11ac

Is this beamforming right? including the .ac

This isn't quite the same as the 'beamforming' from ruckus or what ubiquiti's product seems to be.

With the 'traditional' beamforming, it's about antenna elements and adding small delays so that the carrier wave from the two or more antennas interact at the clients antenna. Think of dropping two rocks in a pond and the waves spreading out. Where they collide, the wave is higher and has more energy. If you drop the rocks at slightly different times, you will change the interacting points of the waves and thus 'steering' the 'beam'.

'ac' is isolating channels per client, so you could benefit from beamforming with 'ac' also. I believe that with 'ac' being able to isolate subchannels per client, beamforming on 'ac' will be of even greater benefit than on 'n'.

I have a few ruckus APs with their beamforming, and the antenna really does do wonders. Unfortunately they are quite expensive and I feel that for most scenarios having a higher number of unifi APs spread over an area is more effective AND less expensive.