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dreamer
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802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

802.11ad would be great for 1 kilometer links. Could do 1000Mbps Full Duplex and have a very small foot print.

I use 60GHz and 80GHz ptp links that give me 1000Mbps Full Duplex even in my rain zone N. We use AirFiber too but the size is just to big to use in 95% of our locations. Some location even the PowerBridge is to big when you need 4 radios on a single pole. Instead we have to use the Athena Wireless Communications A060 or the E-Band 1000LR 80GHz. The E-Band is still on the large side with the 1 foot dish but a lot smaller than the AirFiber. There is also the Siklu 80GHz system but they have priced their product to high. They start at 100Mbps and charge you a fine for going any faster! (Sorry, that's just the way I see it)(also Siklu maxes out at 1000Mbps so thats 500Mbps Full Duplex)

It would be nice to see a 60GHz ptp product that's totally designed and built from the ground up like the airfiber. Time and money are big factors so the chipsets that are on the market could save a lot of the aforementioned.

Would any of you have a need for such a product?
If they were as small as the A060 (7.2''x 7.2''x 3.5'') and priced like the PowerBridgeM I'd buy hundreds of them.
OR
Maybe do an AirFiber-Mini with flat panels. Get it under 12'' x 12'' x 3.5''.
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Dave-D
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

Cost of making radios goes up fairly
dramatically with higher frequencies.
Chipsets are important, but the cost of the
rf section becomes a dominant factor.

One reason AirFiber costs were held at a
moderate level is the integration between
the rf section and the antenna: it's direct-
coupled, with very high efficiency due to
accurate geometry and no intermediate
cabling or hardware. High-gain reflectors
and good coupling demands less rf power.

It's hard to imagine how they could translate
that into a low-profile, 'flat-panel' design. Dave
No disclaimer. Nothing to sell. I need to fix that.
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wispwest
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

I think 60 and 80ghz would only apply to a VERY SMALL market. Most WISP's are RURAL and need LONG DISTANCE backhauls, we gasped at 24Ghz.
What rural WISP's need to getting bandwidth out to under-served area's is AirFiber that will do 30-40 miles. The close-range area's and cities are already saturated with DSL, Cable, and now fiber. What good does a backhaul do us that only does a couple miles?
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amishgenius
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

I think 60 and 80ghz would only apply to a VERY SMALL market. Most WISP's are RURAL and need LONG DISTANCE backhauls, we gasped at 24Ghz.

What rural WISP's need to getting bandwidth out to under-served area's is AirFiber that will do 30-40 miles. The close-range area's and cities are already saturated with DSL, Cable, and now fiber. What good does a backhaul do us that only does a couple miles?


Only about 20% of US population is rural. Think about how many links you could use in city/urban areas.

With the amount of spectum available imagine a multigig wireless metro ring
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

The short range of 60/80 Gig is a very, very limited market.
WHT = Short Form Acronym for "You couldn't handle me even if I came with instructions!"
Well engineered projects are indistinguishable from crazy ideas.

Speed, distance, reliability, cost...Pick three.
...World's First Ubiquiti AirMax WISP....
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dreamer
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

Only about 20% of US population is rural. Think about how many links you could use in city/urban areas.

With the amount of spectum available imagine a multigig wireless metro ring


Thanks for a reply based on reality and not your direct needs.

I just wish the asshats that bend Ubiquitis ear shared your thinking.
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Dave-D
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

You may not know the Ubiquiti demographic:
most of its sales are not in North America.
And the 24GHz band is a kind of compromise
between 5GHz and the 'real-high' bands. It
fits well for the last few miles' of a build-out.

Much of the 3rd world has huge problems with
those last miles. Long-haul is increasingly done
with fiber everywhere in the world. Ubiquiti
can't solve every backhaul issue. Dave
No disclaimer. Nothing to sell. I need to fix that.
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dreamer
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

Cost of making radios goes up fairly
dramatically with higher frequencies.
Chipsets are important, but the cost of the
rf section becomes a dominant factor.

One reason AirFiber costs were held at a
moderate level is the integration between
the rf section and the antenna: it's direct-
coupled, with very high efficiency due to
accurate geometry and no intermediate
cabling or hardware. High-gain reflectors
and good coupling demands less rf power.

It's hard to imagine how they could translate
that into a low-profile, 'flat-panel' design. Dave


You need a bigger more creative imagination. :manhappy:
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dreamer
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

You may not know the Ubiquiti demographic:
most of its sales are not in North America.
And the 24GHz band is a kind of compromise
between 5GHz and the 'real-high' bands. It
fits well for the last few miles' of a build-out.

Much of the 3rd world has huge problems with
those last miles. Long-haul is increasingly done
with fiber everywhere in the world. Ubiquiti
can't solve every backhaul issue. Dave


"Long-haul is increasingly done with fiber everywhere in the world."
Then we don't need long haul PTP.

"Much of the 3rd world has huge problems with those last miles."
Then short range it is.
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Dave-D
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

That's snide enough.

My point is that Ubiquiti can't make
products that fit every need, at the
incredibly-low prices they offer.

Try to 'dream up' a long-haul rf system
that has the carrying capacity of fiber
and the range of a 5GHz radio link. Then
find a world-wide unlicensed band that
supports it and put a cost on it.

Long-haul is increasingly done with fiber
because nothing else works as well. Dave
No disclaimer. Nothing to sell. I need to fix that.
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

Ubiquiti has already built the "platform"....and Robert clearly stated as much. Since the platform is already built, surely it would be very feasible to build a different frequency.

Per FCC there is 7 gigahertz of free spectrum available between 57ghz and 64ghz, compare that to the paltry 200 megahertz available at 24 ghz. How much bandwidth can you get if you have 7 gigahertz channel width to play with.
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

You need a bigger more creative imagination. :manhappy:


that's my department. :manhappy:
WHT = Short Form Acronym for "You couldn't handle me even if I came with instructions!"
Well engineered projects are indistinguishable from crazy ideas.

Speed, distance, reliability, cost...Pick three.
...World's First Ubiquiti AirMax WISP....
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

Only about 20% of US population is rural. Think about how many links you could use in city/urban areas.

With the amount of spectum available imagine a multigig wireless metro ring


So 20% of the US population is rural, but 90% of us fall into that 20% right? Who uses wireless or tries to setup a WISP in the city? I mean, it could happen, but there's cable providers, DSL, fiber, etc.

All I was saying is 80-90% of WISP's are providing service to rural area's. Wireless is our only key to getting it "out there". Dense populated areas with cable and fiber don't need us. I think 60/80ghz is a cool idea, but its way out there compared to what is "wanted" and what is "needed".

I wasn't referring to what "I" need, but rather what most of us need, that are carrying broadband out to the last mile and need long-haul links where there is no, and never will be fiber brought to those areas.

The short range of 60/80 Gig is a very, very limited market.


Exactly.
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amishgenius
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

So 20% of the US population is rural, but 90% of us fall into that 20% right? Who uses wireless or tries to setup a WISP in the city? I mean, it could happen, but there's cable providers, DSL, fiber, etc.



ummmm...dunno, maybe someone you work for :icon_biggrin:
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wispwest
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

ummmm...dunno, maybe someone you work for :icon_biggrin:


Well yea a lot of users "get" the bandwidth from the city and then pipe it out right?

Any new products and frequencies would be nice, I'm just saying I think top priority would be high-capacity long haul, since we already have AirFiber for short links at 24ghz.
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

ummmm...dunno, maybe someone you work for :icon_biggrin:

Rory seems to be doing pretty well in Phoenix :manhappy:
TBH, Ubiquiti doesn't supply WISP products, they supply wireless products that WISPs just happen to use because of their price/performance ratio.
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amishgenius
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

Rory seems to be doing pretty well in Phoenix :manhappy:

TBH, Ubiquiti doesn't supply WISP products, they supply wireless products that WISPs just happen to use because of their price/performance ratio.



Speaking of Rory...Hi Rory :icon_lol:
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Josh_SPITwSPOTS
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

Speaking of Rory...Hi Rory :icon_lol:


?????
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design

Hi-capacity long-haul sounds terrific.

But long-haul means lower bands--not 60GHz.
Where is this unlicensed band below 24GHz
that's available world-wide and will provide
really high capacity, really long-haul?
Dave
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Re: 802.11ad or 60GHz PTP UBNT design


Where is this unlicensed band below 24GHz
that's available world-wide and will provide
really high capacity, really long-haul?


I guess that means there is none. Sucks.. So we'll not get a lower frequency AirFiber below 24ghz then?

What is the M3 products? Are those world-wide unlicensed? If the FCC does anything about that with the US, making it semi-unlicensed I wonder if that would be an option.
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