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muratboy31
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5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

Hi everyone,

I need help with setting up Access point;

I have 5 Sector antennas and  Rocket M2 connected to them.i will use them all with cables not reapeter...

how can i set the channels so it doesnt loop ?

 

Thanks in advence

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amishgenius
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

With rfarmor shields and 10mhz channel width, plus about 6ft of physical seperation, you might be able to get away with 4 sectors. But 5....you will start causing yourself interference and many headaches.

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muratboy31
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

how can i do it with 4 ?

 

which channels should i choose ?

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RichieRich
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

Technically you can install 4 sectors without shield kits and be fine. You have 5 non-overlapping channels if your using 10MHz channel width. The guard band is tiny though. 

 

You can also install 5 sectors with shield kits and 20MHz channels if you think a little creatively.

 

5-Sector.png

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muratboy31
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

[ Edited ]

can you please tell me what is the difference with 10 mhz and 20 mhz ?

also which channels will not overlap in 10 mhz ?

if i use 1  - 6  - 11 channels, what will b the fourth channel ?

 

eee.JPG

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RichieRich
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

We use 1, 4, 8, and 11 at 10MHz. Just double checked. Mathematically, I believe you can work it out to 5 channels, but it doesn't work out on the ubnt gear. 

 

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muratboy31
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

so if i make it 10 mhz, i can use 4 channels right ? but would it loose lots of signal strenght with 10 mhz ?

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rockhead
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

[ Edited ]

muratboy31 wrote:

so if i make it 10 mhz, i can use 4 channels right ? but would it loose lots of signal strenght with 10 mhz ?


No, in fact you will appear to gain signal strength.  You will definitely halve the bandwidth available from each.

 

Looking at your drawing I suspect you might be able to do this with two radios and two sectors.

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Sirhc
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation


RichieRich wrote:

Technically you can install 4 sectors without shield kits and be fine. You have 5 non-overlapping channels if your using 10MHz channel width. The guard band is tiny though. 

 

You can also install 5 sectors with shield kits and 20MHz channels if you think a little creatively.

 

5-Sector.png


You got bigger balls then me Rich!

 

Even with my shield kits I ran into problems installing 4 sectors at 10 MHz wide and had to play with it for awhile so I only do 3 sectors using the standard 1,6,11 channels WITH SHIELDS just to make my life simple!

 

I am not saying it is not possible, but a real pain with varying results dependend on installation environment from 2.4's horendous multipath which my shields can not protect against.

 

But then again I have had people tell me they have three 900 MHz sectors with my shield kits all mounted on a cluster mount with special adapter brackets and they "say" it works?  I just can not see that happening!

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mhoppes
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

There is no way I'd put more than 3 sectors on a tower with 2.4.

 

We have a small town where we need 5 RocketM2s to cover the town.  The town is heavily foliated, so other frequencies aren't an option.

 

Unfortunately, all 5 of these RocketM2s can see each other.

 

We got creative with frequency use, and power outputs at the APs and, so far, haven't had any issues... but they see each other at -84 or so.

 

There's no way I'd try 4 or 5 on the same tower.  Even with shields, the APs (in 2.4) still see each other around -30 or so.

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Sirhc
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

[ Edited ]

mhoppes wrote:

Even with shields, the APs (in 2.4) still see each other around -30 or so.


This is due to multi-path, I can not combat this and it will vary from installation to installation based on environment.

 

The shields actually work just as well at 2.4 as they do at 5 GHz, the biggest problem is multipath of course.

 

With 2.4 GHz far less energy is converted to heat and lost so it bounces around and hits the other AP which is what you see.

 

If you test two 2.4 GHz AP's back to back in a chamber with shield kits they preforme as well as they do at 5 GHz.

 

2.4 GHz was originally selected for home wireless for this very reason.

 

But -30 to -35 dB just being a couple feet apart is a GREAT improvement as without they see each other at -10 to -15 dB so that is 20 dB improvement or a factor of almost 7!

 

5 GHz AP's with shields see each other at -50 to -55 dB with shields and -10 to -15 dB without which is a factor of 10 or so!

 

I consider this a big win!

 

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RichieRich
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

We run 4 90s on our towers at 10MHz channels. We had to separate two from the other two vertically because there were no shield kits when we started. We have just now started adding them.

Getting a way to mount all this gear at one elevation would be tough.
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mhoppes
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

I didn't say it wasn't a big win... I just said the rejection wasn't as large.

 

True story... here are two SiteSurveys from a tower we have.   

 

THIS ONE: Is a cluster of 3 2.4 radios that are on opposing tower legs, with probably 2 or 3 feet of seperation:

 

Screen Shot 2013-03-16 at 8.15.38 PM.png

 

I agree... much better than the -10 or -15 they might see each other at otherwise!

 

Now... here are the two 5GHz APs we have on that same tower, in the same type of setup:

Screen Shot 2013-03-16 at 8.16.24 PM.png

 

-67 WOW!  And they are right next to each other.  I'm a firm believer in the shields (for many many reasons).

 

SIDE NOTE: Don't run SiteSurvey from a UNI-II AP while it is in production.  It apparently boots all users and requires a 2 minute warm-up period to get everything back and running due to the DFS :mad2: :incazzato:

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Sirhc
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation


mhoppes wrote:

I didn't say it wasn't a big win... I just said the rejection wasn't as large.

 

True story... here are two SiteSurveys from a tower we have.   

 

THIS ONE: Is a cluster of 3 2.4 radios that are on opposing tower legs, with probably 2 or 3 feet of seperation:

 

Screen Shot 2013-03-16 at 8.15.38 PM.png

 

I agree... much better than the -10 or -15 they might see each other at otherwise!

 

Now... here are the two 5GHz APs we have on that same tower, in the same type of setup:

Screen Shot 2013-03-16 at 8.16.24 PM.png

 

-67 WOW!  And they are right next to each other.  I'm a firm believer in the shields (for many many reasons).

 

SIDE NOTE: Don't run SiteSurvey from a UNI-II AP while it is in production.  It apparently boots all users and requires a 2 minute warm-up period to get everything back and running due to the DFS :mad2: :incazzato:


I never said you said that Matt! ;-)

I am curious of the environment and height of the 2.4 sectors?

The higher you mount them above possible reflective surfaces the better the "apparent" isolation due to multi-path.

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mhoppes
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

25 meters.

8--0. Did I just say that?

About 85 feet. They are on a hill top right above a small town. Mountain behind the tower. Open valley to all side and in front.

I'd post a picture, but apparently you can no longer upload pictures from the mobile editor. :mansad:
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rockhead
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

hey Matt have you tried the mission impossible bank shot off the windfarm yet ?

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j2840fl
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation


RichieRich wrote:

Technically you can install 4 sectors without shield kits and be fine. You have 5 non-overlapping channels if your using 10MHz channel width. The guard band is tiny though. 

 

You can also install 5 sectors with shield kits and 20MHz channels if you think a little creatively.

 

5-Sector.png


Technically you CAN NOT install 4 sectors without shields. If you try this,you will fail miserably. The 802.11 channel mask is larger than your selected channel width. I speak after many failed attempts,finally I took Chris's advice,bought his shields and stop at three sectors per tower. It does work pretty well,but even with only three sectors running 10 MHz there is some degradation. If UBNT ever figures out how to make GPS work we will be much better off.

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RichieRich
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation


j2840fl wrote:

RichieRich wrote:

Technically you can install 4 sectors without shield kits and be fine. You have 5 non-overlapping channels if your using 10MHz channel width. The guard band is tiny though. 

 

You can also install 5 sectors with shield kits and 20MHz channels if you think a little creatively.

 

5-Sector.png


Technically you CAN NOT install 4 sectors without shields. If you try this,you will fail miserably. The 802.11 channel mask is larger than your selected channel width. I speak after many failed attempts,finally I took Chris's advice,bought his shields and stop at three sectors per tower. It does work pretty well,but even with only three sectors running 10 MHz there is some degradation. If UBNT ever figures out how to make GPS work we will be much better off.


Thats funny.. I could have sworn its been working well for the past 3 years.. Maybe you forgot to read where we do separate two vertically from the other two..

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mhoppes
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

Doesn't matter. You'll still stomp on your clients.

No wind farm hasn't been tried. Hope to soon though. Gotta wait for the snow to clear.
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Lanc
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Re: 5 Sector + Rocket M2 installation

Hello!

 

Another one question, Is the installation of 3xM2 (10MHz) APs on one tower require GPS versions? Or RF Armor shields is enough for this config to work?