10-10-2017 08:36 AM - edited 10-11-2017 03:42 AM
Buddy of mine asked if it would be possible to allow customers to buy the CPE (WISP) in order to avoid monthly equipment rental (back when I was still considering an equipment rental fee).
My gut instinct was to tell him "absolutely not"
He inevitably asked why...
I thought about it for a sec then said "unlike a wired connection, a wireless connection could have issues that wouldn't be obvious to an end user. Like with the signal itself".
So, my question is. How far off was I? And wouldn't there also be security concerns?
10-11-2017 09:07 AM
I am not a WISP but I own my own cable modem. Cox cable in my case still has all the rights to manage the device. I don't pay a fee to rent the modem but if it fails it is on me to get it replaced. Cox cable can upgrade the firmware as needed and they do not notify me in any case.
There may be some advantages in allowing customers to own thier own CPE. For one it would free up some of your capital. Second if the device fails the end user would have to pay for a replacement. Third if an end user decides to cancel service you can delete your security settings that allow them to connect to your network remotely and avoid a truck roll. Forth if you upgrade your AP end equipment you may be able to offer higher speeds at an increased cost to users that upgrade thier end with less cost on your part. Lastly you can still offer a smaller fee for maintenance services such as dish alignments or cabeling issues.
Of course depending on what you are charging per month per CPE and how often they are replaced it could cost you some money.
10-12-2017 06:41 AM
I can see a customer providing/paying for a router/wireless device possibly but not the actual radio itself. But this depends on how you run your network and which device does the actual routing.
I find it a little odd actually to have the customer purchase the radio/cpe. The radios are the main infrastructure for a WISP and the cost/maintenance is just part of playing the game.
For us the customer pays a small "fee" monthly for the router and not the radio. This ensures cost is covered for any replacement or uogrades needed in the future. We like to provide all equipment and manage all equipment. This makes it a turn key solution for the customer and we are 100% responsible for everything.
Another fact of managing even the router is wireless issues. Some customers get noise/interference locally and have no idea how to combat it. To them the "internet is slow/bad" when in reality the channel just needs to be changed. We can do this remotely even and the average customer wouldn't have a clue to what is going on.
10-12-2017 11:45 AM
I disagree with the sediment, I think its a fine idea, with some stipulations. I often have people buy gear upgrades that I won't afford for them, people who want "the best" possible signal. In these situations it saves me the cost of a CPE at their house and puts the risk of defects/lightening strikes on them for replacement.
When a customer has their own gear, I don't treat it much differently than my CPEs. I use my configs, and align during install the same as I would with mine. They have no access to the CPE configuration.
I had a guy pickup an airprism with a backhaul dish because he wanted to make sure his signal was the strongest it could be. I told him what gear would accomplish it and he bought it. Really solid install, not sure he needed a 30dbi for a 2 mile link, but he really wanted it. Definitely modulate at 8x on that one.
10-12-2017 01:19 PM
With our cable company the choice to purchase or lease the modem is the customers. I know that from my perspective the modem will likely cost me less money long term if I buy it versus lease.
I think that the model with the option to purchase may be the best overall. This gives those customers that want to purchase the hardware the option of doing so with them taking the risk of a device failure. It a customer wants to pay for an upgraded setup that provides a stronger signal or increased throughput that might be a good option. As the provider you can always sell the equipment direct to your customers but they would then avoid a rental fee.
The key is to break down your costs and give the customer the option. I know that I pay a month fee with Dish for equipment rental, another for maintenace in case something breaks etc. The same thing can be done for a WISP. Have one fee for the internet service based on speed. One fee for equipment rental. One fee for maintenance. Some customers may want to pay for a modem or radio up front but not pay a maintenance fee and pay for repairs as needed. I would guess that most would choose to rent the modem and pay the fee as it limits the costs they might have to pay. Have the rental fees based on a standard installation. Extras such as a larger dish or an upgraded radio would cost extra.
10-21-2017 09:27 AM
F that. Customer owned cpe will hold back your network when YOU decide its time for a forklift upgrade. Build the cost of replacements in and suck it up.
Rage at an Atheros !
10-21-2017 09:44 AM
It doesn't make any sense for them to want to own it anyway, there's no real benefit to the customer and it doesn't solve any long term potential issues either for them.
As to the capital savings comment: we structured our install fees around the cost of equipment and consumables averaged at each install. We cover the hard cost with the install fee and lay out the labor cost over the subscription revenue. We like to see full ROI in obtaining a customer within the first 30-60 days. If a 'special' build is required, the install fee goes up. This has worked out quiet well for us so far and doesn't drain cash over any significant length of time. We've found people are more accepting of one time costs than small increases in recurring costs.
That said, we almost exclusively serve businesses and high end residential.
Colter \'kohl-ter '\ n : The notorious "hold my beer, I got this" guy.
10-21-2017 09:51 AM - edited 10-21-2017 09:59 AM
There are several reasons why having the customer provide or buy their own CPE or router is a Bad Idea - one which is often overlooked on the router side is that if it gets infected by some malware (thinking of a lot of Linksys devices here) and you have no way to upgrade it it can cause issues in your network. In our case in Colorado there is no tax on services but there is on hardware, so we just don't want to sell hardware much. Also retaining ownership of the gear means you can depreciate it and use it as an asset on your books etc, which you can't do if you sell it to the customer. Plus when a customer leaves we can recycle the units and use them elsewhere so we don't need to purchase quite as many units in total. And the system upgrade issue is a big one - what do you do if they buy the radio and then you decide to upgrade the network? They're not going to be happy being forced to buy a new AC or LTU radio all over again.
Standardisation is also a big plus - if every customer has the same firewall internally, and you can remotely manage it, that makes everything much easier in the long run. We're looking at standardising on the AirCubes as the CPE firewall for residential, and using UNMS to manage them 9plus UCRM for all cust..omer functions). Just like you use all UBNT gear for the CPE, it's just simpler when every subscriber has the same equipment in the house as well...
Just much simpler to keep as much as possible in house. We also don't charge any "fee" for any hardware on customer premeses - we just build the cost for a decent ROI into the monthly price. All the money goes into the same pot anyway, right?
"Humans are allergic to change..They love to say, ‘We’ve always done it this way.’ I try to fight that. "Admiral Grace Hopper, USN, Computer Scientist
":It's not Rocket Science! - Oh wait, Actually it is... "NASA bumper sticker
":The biggest problem in tech I see right now is that most users don't want to do things that are hard. That doesn't bode well for the industry or the society.": (me. actually ;-)
10-22-2017 04:42 PM
And what happens when the customer you sold the unit to, decides he knows more than you do on how to program it, and play around with it? There goes the rest of your entire network! And you have NO control over it!
You do NOT want the customer to own the CPE !
10-23-2017 07:03 AM
Nobody ever said anything about giving the owner the user name and password to manage the device. I own my cable modem but I do not have the user name or password.
If a user decides that he wants to reset the device to defaults and then looses connectivity then he can get charged for a truck roll to reprogram the modem. Just make that clear to users at the start.
10-23-2017 07:08 AM
Agreed, there's a difference between a customer wanting to be their own device admin and just owning the physical asset. With owning the asset they take on the liability and potential cost savings of purchasing it themselves. We'd never let someone have our wpa keys or direct access to their config.
We do this all the time, if it's their gear we fully admin it just like its one of ours. They have no more access to the device than one owned by the company. Typically this only occurs when they want a gear upgrade we won't pay for (IE dish/rocket). We just label it in our system with CUSXXX to let us know we shouldn't pick it up if they deactivate.
So far no issues on our side, gives people an opportunity for higher connection metrics and saves us the cost of a CPE at their location. A side benefit is they typically have longer tenure since they've invested more with the company. Win/Win on this side.
10-24-2017 07:51 AM - edited 10-24-2017 08:06 AM
Alot has been said in this discussion but for us allowing them to own the gear brings up a few issues:
- Customer calls service slow - Tech goes onsite to find dish as been moved or client re-aimed... want to charge service call and customer says when he turns it that way he gets a few more bytes
- Customer calls stating he was reading and his unit needs to be running firmware x.y.z as he read apost and thinks it effects his spawn time on call of duty
- Customer compains as he can't log into his unit to see his airmax capacity etc
- Customer sells cpe on ebay as he owns it and instead bought AC Gen2 radio as it claims faster but your sector is M Series and client asks why you using old gear.
The list goes on
10-24-2017 08:50 AM
Preparing a proper terms and conditions can resolve all of the complaints that you have. Make sure that the customer has signed and dated a document with your terms and conditions.
Terms would include that they not modify the installation location aim etc.
That they do not have login rights to the unit as long as they are receiving service from your company.
That they can only buy replacement radios direct from your company. This can and should be for security reasons etc.
That the units are warrantied for a specific period of time.
Other terms you may want to consider are that you can mandate that a new radio be purchased or leased after a minimum period of time for system upgrades. The minimum period would be the cost of the lease divided into the price of the radio. So if you lease the radios for $8 per month and the purchase was $80 then after 10 months if your system is being upgraded then they are either required to purchase a new radio or go back to renting.
There are pros and cons to a purchase over lease for both the owner and the customer. For the business owner it could be less expensive to deploy a network. Being able to break down the cost of each part of the service to the customer may be desierable for some. Others just want to know what the total cost is and not care about options.
11-02-2017 05:16 PM
Another one to add to your list.
Customer buys the CPE from you, and then competitor "B" in the area tells him he can get service for $5 cheaper than what you are selling it to him for. Suddenly customer goes with Competitor B, because he owns the equipment, and doesn't have to pay an additional installation charge to switch to Competitor B to get their service. (Competitor B resets the CPE and reprograms it on their system- quick pickup for them)
YOU lose out !
If you owned equipment, customer would have to weigh the costs of paying for a new installation from Competitor B, against the $5 dollars a month difference !