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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

(for) @NVX @twinkletoes @mrjester (to) UBNT

Please, please, please, please design a 1-4U chassis router/switch.

Optional redundant power. Optional AC or DC power (or both!). Optional routing/switching interface cards. Optional POE.

I would love you forever Man Happy



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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

[ Edited ]

Josh_SPITwSPOTS wrote:

Please, please, please, please design a 1-4U chassis router/switch.


Maybe it could be a 6500-style chassis with a passive backplane and modular power supplies. One slot (or two, for redundancy) would be for an upgradeable backplane fabric (e.g. n-port 10/40GigE switch chip for an n-slot chassis), then evolve the existing rackmount EdgeRouter models to be able to fit in a single slot in the chassis in addition to operating as standalone 1U routers. The same form factor could be used for a switch board. Then customers could "graduate" to the redundant chassis and reuse their already purchased routers and switches as line cards.

The trickiest bit would be to implement a stack configuration interface so the chassis could be managed as a single unit, but there's a case for a redundant chassis even if each slot initially would need to be managed individually.

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

[ Edited ]

@hydrom 

I definately agree with progressive forward movement.  I'm simply reminding us that we can't afford to throw away current confirmed standards for the sake of progression.  IBM can testify to where that road can lead.  I remember the day when they thought they were big enough to decide where the computer industry was going to go regardless of what others thought.  I'm not sure they ever truely recovered from that action.

I believe that Ubiquiti has great promise.  However, there are areas with their products where they have not yet caught up to current industry standards, but rather seem disinterested in conforning.  For example, any of the POE equipment...  They seem to still be a few years bnehind everyone else.  I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to buy any piece of standard equipment off the shelf and have it autodetect and work on Ubiquiti equipment just as it would on any other brand.  This doesn't mean that Ubiquiti can't lead the industry in new development, but I feel that could be a difficult task if their equiment doesn't yet meet current standards.

But this is enough from me.  We're side tracking the thread.

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

[ Edited ]

I like what Josh says; dual power is so basic and
obvious. It's frustrating not to have it--I have two
projects that are desperate for it right now. And
I had to gin up a strategy I really don't like.

But somehow the most basic installer features are
always given short shrift. I have some very nice
ToughSwitch Pro to put in a remote site. But there
are no mount points at all: no clips, no threaded
inserts, no nothing. So I'll have to Velcro this heavy
device into a box somehow.

Note how they made the ToughSwitch Carrier: they
had to make some custom hold-down brackets
because the ToughSwitch doesn't have any way to
mount it. You'd think that would give them a clue...

Same with the PoE power supplies: no way to mount
them--not even a tie-wrap hole. So they squirm around
or they need Velcro. It's the little things that count
when you're trying to get the job done.   Dave


> HQ in Seacoast region New Hampshire U.S.A.
> Ubiquiti Certified Trainer [UCT] for:
     UBWA [AirMax] / UEWA [UniFi] / UBRSS [routers]
UBNT.NH@gmail.com
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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models


Dave-D wrote:

I like what Josh says; dual power is so basic and
obvious. It's frustrating not to have it--I have two
projects that are desperate for it right now. And
I had to gin up a strategy I really don't like.

But somehow the most basic installer features are
always given short shrift. I have some very nice
ToughSwitch Pro to put in a remote site. But there
are no mount points at all: no clips, no threaded
inserts, no nothing. So I'll have to Velcro this heavy
device into a box somehow.

Note how they made the ToughSwitch Carrier: they
had to make some custom hold-down brackets
because the ToughSwitch doesn't have any way to
mount it. You'd think that would give them a clue...

Same with the PoE power supplies: no way to mount
them--not even a tie-wrap hole. So they squirm around
or they need Velcro. It's the little things that count
when you're trying to get the job done.   Dave


@Dave-D RF ARMOR makes two very nice types of mounts for toughswitch pros. One is a single black metal sleeve the toughswitch slides down into, then gets screwed into the wall. The second is the 1U rackmounts they make (3 versions).

We use both. We've never actually bought a "toughswitch carrier".



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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

[ Edited ]

I didn't know that Josh; thanks!

But maybe it makes the point even stronger.
Why should users have to shop around for
3rd-party products (and pay extra) for a feature
as obvious as wall mounting? Threaded inserts
cost the manufacturer virtually pennies, and the
lack of them costs the installer real dollars.

I'm not as convinced about the 802.3af PoE
issue. Both 24 and 48V solutions are available.   Dave


> HQ in Seacoast region New Hampshire U.S.A.
> Ubiquiti Certified Trainer [UCT] for:
     UBWA [AirMax] / UEWA [UniFi] / UBRSS [routers]
UBNT.NH@gmail.com
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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

[ Edited ]

You already have a decent routing platform now, so how about an IDS/IPS device?

The same EdgeRouter hardware can run a modified EdgeMAX OS geared toward filtering with transparent and routed modes. Give it the ability to update from common rule/signature providers like Sourcefire and the ability to update from common RBL's like Spamhaus to filter SPAM. Give it some basic DoS/DDoS filtering. Keep the ability to add normal firewall rules just like the current OS, but strip out all the unneeded stuff like VPN, PPPoE, and unneeded routing protocols.

This could probably be built into an existing router, but a more refined and dedicated device would allow it to compete with the likes of Sonicwall and Juniper Netscreens. I can see the EdgeRouter Lite hardware running this for a small network with two transparent ports and a management port. However take the Pro hardware with 8 gig ports and some extra RAM and you’ll have a very nice device that I’d buy several of right now. To step it up a bit more give us the option of a pair of pass-through Ethernet ports so in the event of a total device failure the traffic can just flow through unfiltered.

Price it around $200 for the “Lite” model and $500-$600 for a Pro model, maybe even $1,500 for an enterprise model with 10GE ports and I’ll deploy at least 2-4 of them in my data center, plus I’ll offer them to my colocation clients. I’m sure the mom and pop ISP’s here will gawk at the $1,500 or even $500 price suggestion, but some of us are running carrier class networks with multiple $40k+ IPS devices right now so $1,500 would be giving it away if it has just half the ability to keep up with competing systems in its class.

As for your routing platform in general whatever you do don't dilute your product line with 20 different models of basically the same device and only make minor changes between each one. The 3 and 5 port Lite’s are pretty close together, so close the 5 port should probably be the low end model. The 8 port models are nice for the mid range, but could really use a 10GE port or two. The high end model is missing from the lineup, bigger CPU, more RAM, 12 ports of gig eithernet and at least 4 ports that are dedicated SFP, no less than two 10GE ports. An enterprise model would be awesome, but don’t even bother unless you’re going to build a multi-slot chassis and manufacture hotswappable line cards for it, including serial/DS3, 4G, 10GE, and various multiport Ethernet and fiber (SFP) cards.

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models


ngds wrote:

However take the Pro hardware with 8 gig ports and some extra RAM and you’ll have a very nice device that I’d buy several of right now. To step it up a bit more give us the option of a pair of pass-through Ethernet ports so in the event of a total device failure the traffic can just flow through unfiltered.


I've heard of people swapping out the 2GB DDR3 SO-DIMM in ER8Pro's with a 8GB DDR3 SO-DIMM instead, just sayin'. Man Happy

Combine with a managed switch that uses port mirroring to send traffic to your repurposed EdgeRouter-based IDS and you're laughing. Man Happy

That said, the architecture of the EdgeRouters is that it can achieve such high performance by use of the offloading modules. IDS stuff is generally fairly CPU bound and would naturally not be offload capable so in practice a beefy x86 box is probably a better fit...

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models


NVX wrote:

ngds wrote:

However take the Pro hardware with 8 gig ports and some extra RAM and you’ll have a very nice device that I’d buy several of right now. To step it up a bit more give us the option of a pair of pass-through Ethernet ports so in the event of a total device failure the traffic can just flow through unfiltered.


I've heard of people swapping out the 2GB DDR3 SO-DIMM in ER8Pro's with a 8GB DDR3 SO-DIMM instead, just sayin'. Man Happy

Combine with a managed switch that uses port mirroring to send traffic to your repurposed EdgeRouter-based IDS and you're laughing. Man Happy

That said, the architecture of the EdgeRouters is that it can achieve such high performance by use of the offloading modules. IDS stuff is generally fairly CPU bound and would naturally not be offload capable so in practice a beefy x86 box is probably a better fit...


Cavium makes chip models slighly different from the existing ones used in edgerouters for IDS/DPI. Sonicwall uses them.



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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

here are the features i'd like added to the ER PoE, call it ER PoE 2

firstly WiFi AC would be a nice, i noticed wifi is suggested alot as a expansion slot, perhaps we can have other options like ADSL, 4G etc.

8 ports, PoE on all, 1GB

serial console port replaced with USB, which we can use as a NAS, 

small formfactor like the ER PoE

the power input located on the same side as the ethernet ports.

poe 802.3af support, passive seems proprietary. 

higher quality materials to avoid whatever whine sound the ER PoE has, and better passive cooling, perhaps with the use of better materials add the word "Tough" to it, ER Tough PoE.

i'd pay whatever it takes to make this happen

 

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

I don't have any money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you leave my console port alone, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will yell and kick and scream until you regret ever suggesting they remove the console port from the edgerouter line.

Devil



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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models


Josh_SPITwSPOTS wrote:

I don't have any money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you leave my console port alone, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will yell and kick and scream until you regret ever suggesting they remove the console port from the edgerouter line.

Devil


Quoting because this post is the best post. Also, I agree 100%. Every networking device must have a serial console port. Add USB if you will, but leave the serial console port alone.

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

I'd love a 16 or 24 port model similar to the CRS from Mikrotik. Their switching is complete crap though.

2-4 SFP+ ports. Dual power supply. 

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

[ Edited ]

Josh_SPITwSPOTS wrote:

I don't have any money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you leave my console port alone, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will yell and kick and scream until you regret ever suggesting they remove the console port from the edgerouter line.

Devil


This!

I'll be very sad the day a device in the EdgeMAX line comes out without a console port.

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

Toughswitch overhaul?

from: http://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeMAX/Will-there-be-MPLS-VPLS-support/m-p/829480#M30223

"why ask for MPLS on Edgemax/EdgeOS when SPB [IEEE802.1aq] on toughswitch might be a longer term investment, minimise/simplify configuration (be accessible to more non specialist customers) and suit a whole lot more applications (be a better block for the lego set)? 

Another upside - renaming edgeOS and Edgemax wouldn't be necessary due to the addition of a core technology like MPLS or SPB"

from: http://community.ubnt.com/t5/EdgeMAX/Will-there-be-MPLS-VPLS-support/m-p/829312#M30214

"... toughswitch needs a rethink retaining the PoE but with SPB HW support throughout the range.

To match the edgemax footprint wise 1) baby(s?) with copper only, 2)  rackmount single power 2SFPs in the middle (suit dual switch deployments) & 3) rackmount dual power & up to 4SFPs on the big end - just became something that scales from your house to building a massive backbone.  Assuming disruptive pricing - it is now a compelling addition to any WISP arsenal."

 

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

DC Voltage INPUT jack !!!!!!!

A lot of us run things on batteries !!!!!!

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

Oh man, I just had the best idea. Why not a Ubiquiti console server!

A dozen or two RJ45 serial console connections to connect to all your EdgeRouters and other networking gear's console ports (with back buffers kept for each connection of course) that you can connect to with a console cable and ethernet for glorious truely out-of-band management without having to leave your desk Man Happy.

Would be good to one day have a rack full of nothing but ubnt kit *hint hint* Man Wink

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

[ Edited ]

There are couple of repeating themes here, with two of those being more frequent.

  • AC and DC inputs on Pro and above!   Enterprise should have an option for redundant built in ps. 
  • A more capable toughswitch (no arguements from anyone on this)
  • and various versions of the edgemax router.   
  • better mounting options

 

Make ver. 2 of the edgemax lite have at least 5 ports total.  You can make the additional ports as switched ports, but this should increase the sales of the lite model for the home users who don't want to purchase another switch for more ports.   The price should not be higher than $120.   You can even use the current Edgemax POE chassis. 

 

Price points for routers should be:

$100-$120  5 ports Endpoint/Home users/Tower

$180 POE 5 ports, Endpoint/Home user/Tower

$250 8 ports Upgradable RAM, Designed for higher MTBF (8 full routed ports)  AC and DC options

$350 8 ports Upgradable RAM, Designed for higher MTBF (8 full routed ports) 2 SFP+ ports  AC and DC options

$850-1000 16 ports, Quad core, Upgradable RAM, Designed for higher MTBF (full routed ports) 2 SFP+ ports AC and DC inputs.

$1000+  16 ports Quad core, Upgradable RAM, Designed for higher MTBF (full routed ports) Multiple SFP+ ports  AC and DC options, Redundant Power modules with AC or DC inputs.

 

 

Toughswitch Carrier needs redesigned as it needs stacking ports, and dual redundant power supply module options

The current Toughswitch carrier is nothing more than (2) toughswitch pro's in a chassis.

The chassis itself should have built in redundant powersupplies capable of either AC or DC input. Which you plug the toughswitch pro or carrier into. 

You could sell a less expensive version equipped with (1) power supply, but there would be POE limitations when using one PS to power two toughswitches. 

 

 

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models


mackintire wrote:

Make ver. 2 of the edgemax lite have at least 5 ports total.  You can make the additional ports as switched ports, but this should increase the sales of the lite model for the home users who don't want to purchase another switch for more ports.   The price should not be higher than $120.   You can even use the current Edgemax POE chassis. 

So basically an ER-PoE sans the PoE?

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Re: Requests/suggestions for new hardware models

Response to NVX

Correct.

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