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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

[ Edited ]

@UBNT-schmid

 

With the antennas as shown, the radiation patterns would be as shown below. Yes?Patterns.png

 

That means coverage is only from one antenna (the vertical one) for the majority of the coverage area.

 

The other alternative (below) does not seem much better if you are interested in range, as the majority of the signals are going up into space, and into the ground.

Pattern3.png

 

 

Am I missing something?

 

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

I think the two radiation patterns for the last picture should be swapped.

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

Indeed! ... editing now.
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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

I am not using this product at this time. However, I have been looking at it as an option for some outdoor coverage for an area I want to cover.

One thing that I can see as an issue could be mutual coupling or even nulling out due to the closeness of the antennas to each other.  Being this close there can be other issues introduced maybe.

What would happen if you took the 2 antennas and added a jumper to each one and give them some distance from one another say 5 or 6 feet apart just to see what happens using the same unit with the antenna.

Take your readings on the same day and about the same time frame so that conditions of the day would be close to the same, then do your walker around with your testing equipment to see if the results are any different.

 

Good luck,

 

Jim

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

Anyone here done a near field check, antennas off and then put back on? I've been in meetings all day and still haven't unpacked my pile of these yet.  Tomorrow there will be some tests with whatever fw they came with.

 

fwiw, the one unit I am looking at box shows 11/16/16 date.

 

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

@FreenetAntennas I'm confused too by the position of that antennas. This kinda go against what I would normally use, especially the 45 degree angled for indoors, as I've never seen that on any product.

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

Unfortunately it's not as straightforward as you think, especially indoors where the majority of the signal propagates by bouncing off things.   Yes the dipole antennas basically put out signal in a pattern like a  torous - and in an open environment the signal propagates that way.   But indoors it goes all over the place as soon as it hits a wall or floor or table ot the mains wiring in the wall or...   

 

So don't overthink this.   The best way to figure out the best way to set the antennas is by trial and error.   This is why the AmpliFi Mesh Point units have the magnet swivel bases - so you can try differnt things until you find what works best.   And the torus diagrams you used, while very nice, don't take into account things like how low gain the whip antennas are -  there's still lots of signal coming right out the top of the whip itself.   Angling them to get the highest separtion between the chains is more important to maximize throughput.

Jim

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

In theory a distance of 5cm between two parallel antennas should be sufficient, but apparently not in practice. All consumer routers use greater distances. UBNT-Schmid stated that with both in parallel position the AC-M behaves as if it had only 1 antenna.

 

So, in order to make use of antenna diversity there needs to be an angle, as pure horizontal shifting of the antenna base it not possible. I wonder, though, why UBNT chose to design the AC-M that narrow - in order to take advantage of the existing design of the AmpliFi extenders?

 

There is another question: When angled, will the floppy ears stay that way in the next winter storm?

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

@eejimm very well put!

 

@ub40 Mine survived without any issues. But then it is under an eve attached to a wall. I think that if you would really expose it to the elements, that you would combine it with one of the AirMax antennas. This is really also what this device was made for: External Antennas. The dipoles are a good start, but in outdoor environments, you probably want something beefier. And yes, we have more antennas in the pipeline.

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

[ Edited ]

Plus don't forget the UAP-AC-M Pro - it's big but it's rugged and really covers well.

Jim

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"Humans are allergic to change..They love to say, ‘We’ve always done it this way.’ I try to fight that. "Admiral Grace Hopper, USN, Computer Scientist
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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

Just installed around 20 of the UAP AC M in a holiday park.  I too am having issues with range.  I have update dto the latest firmware, tried them at different heights on the pole.  Also tried different variations of angle for the antenna.  Nothing seems to work.

 

Is there any news on new firmware or anything that may help this?  As one poster stated the advertised range is nowhere near what people are getting in reality.  Misleading Trade Description.

 

 

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

[ Edited ]

Ar you talking about the range to a user device or for the 5GHz Mesh Uplink connections?   What wereyou expecting for the range to be?

Jim

" How can anyone trust Scientists? If new evidence comes along, they change their minds! " Politician's joke (sort of...)

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

Hi Jim

 

Im talking about range to the user.  Not using the Mesh uplink function everywhere, using a mixture of 5ghz backhaul links, fibre cable  and of course mesh.  

 

I was looking for around 80-100 metres.  Unfortunately only getting about 30 metres before signal gets poor.

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

I have personally tested an AC-Mesh yesterday, outdoors, and I did have connectivity at 600 ft. It wasn't great, like 300 kbps in a speed test. What is your definition of "bad signal"?

 

And can you make sure the antennas are properly tightened down? A slightly loose antenna could have this effect.

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

Hi we are seeing users connecting around -80dbm signal from a radius of around 30-40 metres.  Would have thought we would be getting -60/-70dbm at those distances

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

@UBNT-schmid

 

Please refer to all the posts above and the ones where we very specifically identified the connectors and tested their connection to the "floppy ears" (original) and AM-5AC21-60 sectors.

 

This IS NOT a connector / antenna problem.

 

This IS a firmware / hardware problem.  One that has your customers very baffled.

 

Please note, Ubiquiti advertises these UAP-AC-M to 600' with factory supplied "floppy ears"  if we could get 300' reliably from that we wouldn't complain.  Also note that the gain level attained with the sector antennas should give us 18.5dBm additional over unity gain, so about 16 dBm over the "floppy ears" (3dBi), which simple propagation and path loss calculations tell us that we can get 600' LoS with no issue at near -70dBm.

 

We don't want a reply of can you make sure your antennas are tightened down.  We don't want a reply of What is our definition of bad signal.

 

For clarification, bad signal is -78dBm and lower, medium signal is -68 to -78dBm, Good signal is -68dBm and higher.

 

We are looking for an ETA to the problem that has been identified by multiple community members here, with stock and sector antennas.  It's painful when my UAP-LR has significantly better range outdoors than this little UAP-AC-M.

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

@siennanetworks I am trying to figure out what is going on with these units. If you read my previous post, you will see that I did the test too, and I did not see the behavior you describe. I got connectivity all the way up to 600 feet. 

 

I would like to get one or two of these bad units back to our lab for inspection, as all the ones we have tested don't have the described behavior. @siennanetworks I will contact you by PM so we can do an RMA.

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

@UBNT-schmid

Trying to draw a picture in my head here.

In your 600ft test, I will assume:
1) The antennas were oriented as in the photo you posted (one 100% vertical and one 100% horizontal)
2) The Horizontal antenna was like a finger 'pointing' North

... where was your client device that was 600' away?

1) North of the AP
2) East
3) South
4) West
?

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

[ Edited ]

Well I finally had a chance to take some measurements with the factory supplied antenna.

 

The firmware was latest  3.7.55.6308 as they shipped with 3.4.22.3475 (pile of poo). With current firmware upload is still a bit irraditic but connection is stable (download is very stable) and not constantly connect/disconnecting as with shipped firmware.

 

I did not measure 2.4 only 5.0.  Test device was mesh repeater set on plumb 10 ft mast in open space.

 

2.4 is set on ch 6 , 20 Mhz width, auto channel (6), transmit high (23 dBm, 200mW), gain 5 dBi

5.0 is set on ch 104 manual, 40 Mhz width VHT (minus), transmit high (25 dBm, 316mW), gain 5 dBi

 

I did two measurements, one parallel to the 2 anntenna and other at 90 degrees.  Both antenna in vertical position.

 

oo -> 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200 ft

 

oo

  |

 ⌄

25

50

75

100

125

150

175

200

 

Parallel

25 ft. -52 to -55

50 ft. -56 to -58

75 ft. -60 to -64

100 ft. -61 to -64

125 ft. -64 to -67

150 ft. -69 to -70

175 ft. -68 to -72

200 ft. -68 to -72

 

@ 90 degrees

25 ft. -50 to -52

50 ft. -50 to -54

75 ft. -57 to -59

100 ft. -64 to -67

125 ft. -64 to -66

150 ft. -67 to -70

175 ft. -70 to -75

200 ft. -67 to -71

 

As I'm not interested in coverage beyond 200 ft I didn't bother testing beyond this but the far field should fall off the same as any other omni. The results are fine to me.

 

One thing to remember is the different UNI bands have different transmit power restrictions, nevermind DFS or TPC.  And IC regdomain is different than FCC especially in UNI I <- check IC annex for more detail regarding EIRP indoor/outdoor elevation azimuths etc.

 

As for the TX retry/dropped counters being so high, that's likely bunk data displayed.  The odd of both counters being read from kernel wrong is low, i.e., different drivers for each radio..  Likely, just a reporting issue missed by QA.

 

Anyway, for my purposes 11s is working fine on these guys.  The range is certainly acceptable for what I need.

 

Almost forgot to mention I did near field check and antenna coupling effect was easily seen.

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Re: UAP-AC-M poor signal

@FreenetAntennas The client was East if the antenna points North.

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