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Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

Dear Forum,

 

I am trying to connect one client device to a AP around 300' away. The whole set up is mobile. The AP will be periodically moved in any direction within a 300' radius of the client, always maintining line of sight.

 

I would like to use two omni antennas. One at the AP and one near the tablet as a repeater. I know one would normally just use two Nanos for this but as the AP is portable, I cannot use directional antennas as the folks moving the AP may point it in the wrong direction. I would also prefer not to use four sector antennas pointed in each direction. 

 

My question is: will two omni antennas connect over 300 feet? If so, which products should I use? Ideally, I would like to use as physically small a set up as possible (antenna below 6" or so).

 

This is a brief diagram of the set up:

Ubnt post.JPG

 

A good answer will say: "use ___ product!" or "nope, two omnis can't reach 300 ft" or "if the AP and radio are config'd as P2P, a client won't be able to talk to the repeater, go ahead and through an AirGateway in there near the client". A bad answer will say: "just use a sector antenna!".

 

Thank you very much for your help.

George


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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

Final idea:

 

Client (tablet)<<<10ft>>>>AirGateway LR----bullet M5 w/ 'rubber ducky' antenna<<<<<250ft>>>>>bullet M5 w/'rubber ducky' antenna----IP camera.

 

--- = wired connection

<<<xft>>> = wireless connection

 

 

Have I made any mistakes in this set-up? Thank you very much everyone for your help.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

It can work, given the rather low bandwidth requirement.

 

The Bullet is 1x1 MIMO (SISO actually), just so that you know. Note that the airGateway is not a rugged outdoor device - at 10ft also the simple airGateway might do. Consider if you need an airGateway with 5G support to avoid a congested 2G band, and note that production of the airGateway has ceased.

 

An IP camera will add a considerable delay, so do consider to use MJPEG (with much greater bandwidth requirement) over h264. But even with MJEPG there will be a delay.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

Let's put it this way - I'm in the middle of nowhere (absolutely no wifi interference around me) and have a UAP-AC-M on a pole above my house. I have a shop 100 yards (300 feet) away from my house with no obstructions. My UAP-AC-Lite does not see the UAP-AC-M and vice versa. And by the way, that's on either 2g or 5g. Now that said, you MIGHT have better luck if you try using the UAP-AC-M Pros at each end, but I'm too cheap and lazy to try that, I used a pair of NanoBeams, but then my stuff isn't mobile, it's fixed.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

Since this is a mobile setup: Rather not not use UniFi since wireless uplink is slow and not flexible. That leaves airMax: 2x Rocket Lite 5AC with an omni on bot sides.

 

You have not provided info on required bandwidth and L2 bridge or NAT routing requirements.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

300 feet is a bit on the far side of "normally acceptable" for LOS communications.  Generally you can call it 100 meters / 330 feet before LOS wifi will fall apart -- provided that the client setup is halfway decent -- such as the internal card on a laptop, provided that you're oriented the right way (laptop antennas have the best gain when the back of the case is aligned to the AP).

 

Now, if the client device does not have wifi (or the ability to easily add it), a pair of UAP-AC-M radios will probably work -- although AirMAX are a bit less of a pain to configure.

 

 

edit - wait, is the AP part "mobile" as well? 

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

We have used a  Unifi AP LR for such distances. According to Unifi

'The UAP-LR has a longer range than the base model UAP with a range of up to 183 m (600 ft).'

Also the UAP-Outdoor+ has the same range. If you want one rated for outdoor.  

 

Also remember to config the AP and set the transmit power to High vs Auto. You could always buy one and test it and if it doesn't work return it. But you should be able to connect a single device no problem 

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

Here's the thing though. Normal APs get slower as the signal degrades, so it may work at 300 feet but the speed may be low. With Airmax, you can be REALLY far and still have full-speed. My Nanobeams are 300 feet apart but will easily top 600mbps.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

300 feet wouldn't be out of line for a pair of UAPs to uplink over though Man Wink  worst case, they'll link at MCS 6 or 7 (580-650 mbps)

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

See above, my AP-LR and AP-AC-M can't even see each other at 300' on 2.4ghz, much less 5.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

 

Hm, dunno what you've done then - I've got a pair about 200' apart that see each other well enough (open air, just about -60 dBm, although weather has an effect).  Unfortunately to get them to 400' would mean being in the neighbor's backyard ... and trying to get signal through a house is a nonstarter Man Wink

 

 

edit -- oh wait, you're apparently trying to go from inside to outside, or vice versa .. yeah, that's no good at all.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

I read it as 'always maintining line of sight' from the original OP.
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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

"See above, my AP-LR and AP-AC-M can't even see each other at 300' on 2.4ghz, much less 5."
You never mentioned an AP LR above only the AP AC lite.
Also, have you tried setting the power to high and selecting a nice single channel like 6 for both?

 

Edit:

Ill also point out that using them in any bridge mode requires the person setting up to understand to put the AP where you HAVE wifi not where you necessarily WANT wifi. So if the setup could allow the bridged AP LR to site halfway (150ft) you would help ensure the device gets a better connection at the other side of the setup. 

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

Sorry about that, I did have a Lite down there for a while, but now it's the old-style AP-LR. Short story - we moved here several months ago and I can't find the mount for the AP-AC-Lite so I swapped over to the LR recently. Sometimes I forget what I"m talking about, I'll chalk that up to old age.

 

He's saying there's no way to bridge in-between, and it is the same for me. There's nothing over the 100 yards between my house and the shop but dirt, rocks, and cactus. Oh, and some deer.

 

In my case, it was OK because Nanobeams work great. But he's wanting to be mobile.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

I will point out again that the mesh feature of UniFi, also known as wireless uplink (WU), will create headaches in a mobile environment where the second AP is moving regularly and being powered up and down and up: WU is picky and slow to establish - once it works things are fine, but the setup can take 30 minutes or fail entirely. Read the many user posts here in the forum if you want an illustration.

 

Hence the advice to use two Rocket Lite APs instead. Besides, the OP wants outdoor device, which the LR is not, and a rather small one, which the AC-M-Pro is not. Granted, also the AMO5G10 antenna isn't small with its 23 inches. Of course smaller pig tails can be found for the mobile side by the dozen made be by third party vendors.

 

What exactly is the application? If you were to go for a directional solution on the mobile unit, then a NanoBeam (or NanoStation) would be small and provide a great signal. The base can probably stomach the AMO5G10.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

Yeah the Airmax would certainly work and is a great deal for the price. I remember when the first B+B Ghostbridge came out and we set up for a client that had a farmhouse 6 mile away!!! and it worked flawlessly. Then again they were $700+ for the pair. I think the airmax is rated for 10miles line of site.
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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

@RobbieH: An AC-M cannot uplink to a wired UAP-LR, whereas the other way around works on 2G.

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

@ub40 wrote:

@RobbieH: An AC-M cannot uplink to a wired UAP-LR, whereas the other way around works on 2G.


I know. But they can "see" each other if I bring them closer together. In a scan it will show up if it can see it. I'm not using them in that function, so for now the AP-LR is just fine for what it's being used for down there.

 

Matters would be even worse over 5G. Luckily the Nanobeams are great. Man Happy

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance


@RobbieH wrote:

@ub40 wrote:

@RobbieH: An AC-M cannot uplink to a wired UAP-LR, whereas the other way around works on 2G.


I know. But they can "see" each other if I bring them closer together. In a scan it will show up if it can see it. I'm not using them in that function, so for now the AP-LR is just fine for what it's being used for down there.

 

Matters would be even worse over 5G. Luckily the Nanobeams are great. Man Happy


And both devices are *outside* ? and pointed in (more-or-less) the right direction?

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]

Thank you everyone for your excellent replies! It sounds like I have two options:

 

Option1:

Rocket 5AC Lite<<<<<<250ft>>>>>Rocket 5AC Lite<<10ft>>client.

Here, the problem is which omnit antenna to use for the rocket. @ub40- you're correct in saying the AMO5G10 is a bit large for the mobile unit. Does anyone have a recommendation for a much smaller omni antenna that can plug into the Rocket? 

Also- can the client directly talk to the Rocket? Or would I need to include an AP as well.

 

Option 2:

UAP AC M<<<<<<250ft>>>>>>>UAP AC M<<10ft>>client

@ub40- you do not recommend this option. Could you elaborate on or link to a thread as to why this is? 

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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

[ Edited ]
 
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Re: Using two omni antennas to bridge 300' distance

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The AirMAX "AC" lineup can only talk to other AirMAX equipment (AC or "M5" - note that to talk to M5 kit, you have to set things up in a specific order, documented around here somewhere ... )

The AirMAX "M5" (and M2) lineup can be configured to talk to either AirMAX M5 (or M2) OR 802.11n wifi equipment

UniFi can talk to 802.11a/g/n/ac equipment (or 802.11b if you turn on Legacy Mode).

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