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POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi @UBNT-Ben,

 

OK, just about every other manufacturer's specs for carrier grade products which run on DC input have listed

 

Vin-min and Vin-max

 

All your hardware development guys ever want to put in your published specs is the voltage and current rating on the POE power pack.

 

We run off of solar power at remote sites

 

If you want us to buy your products, we need the complete WORKING VOLTAGE RANGE for every product in the product specs, not having to try to search for it in the forums.

 

That means we will need it for AF-X as well.

 

I don't mean to be blunt, but you don't have the excuses anymore of being a new company.

Best Regards ... Joe

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi JustJoe - 

 

Will check on this with docs team.

 

Thanks,

Ben

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi @UBNT-Ben , Looks like the Rocket AC and PowerBeam AC datasheets have been updated with:

 

Supported Voltage Range: 20-26VDC   Icon Biggrin

 

Good work, this will be a great parameter to have in all the datasheets for any new products.

 

Now please please please have the AF people update the AF-5X and the rest of the AF platform with the same spec.

Best Regards ... Joe

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

[ Edited ]

Hi,

 

AF5X power: 20 - 28VDC. 

 

Chuck

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please


@UBNT-Chuck wrote:

Hi,

 

AF5X power: 20 - 28VDC. 

 

Chuck


Thank you @UBNT-Chuck !

 

When you have time, please have it added to http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/airfiber/airFiber_AF-5X_DS.pdf so that it will be easy for others to quickly find in the future.

 

btw It is very unfortunate that the range did not go up to 30Vin-max  (The way most MikroTik boxes do).  We have several hilltop repeater sites that are solar powered and the charge controllers operate the batteries in the 23-30Vout range for 2x12V lead acid battery systems. I know 15VDC per battery seems high, but that is a level it goes to on a timed cycle once a month for an hour to "equalize" (mix) the electrolyte to perform at peak storage capacity. 

 

A 20-30Vin range on the AF-5X would have let it run without inserting a voltage regulator in between which wastes precious watts and reduces the low voltage to around the 20Vin-min, meaning it can't drive very long Ethernet POE cables. Smiley Sad

Best Regards ... Joe

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Well, our solar and DC powered sites (virtually all of the sites by this summer) use 12V battery stacks and 24V DC boost converters to get 24V for everything (except the AFs which use 50V converters) and the total losses are under 4% in the conversion.   Plus if the converter MOS-FETs short out the voltage drops to 14V from the batteries instead of going up to 28 and blowing up everything.   Much safer that way.

Jim

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please


@eejimm wrote:

Well, our solar and DC powered sites (virtually all of the sites by this summer) use 12V battery stacks and 24V DC boost converters to get 24V for everything (except the AFs which use 50V converters) and the total losses are under 4% in the conversion.   Plus if the converter MOS-FETs short out the voltage drops to 14V from the batteries instead of going up to 28 and blowing up everything.   Much safer that way.

Jim


Sorry Jim, but I don't believe the 4% average number on an up-converter ... Maybe 8% average over the entire 24 hour cycle if you are lucky where you are not pulling the optimum load continuously.

 

Also 2 x 12V = 24V lead acid systems are a much better overall choice because they have lower current in the wires so less loss there and lower cost for the charge controller (most will double the power capacity with a 24V setup instead of a 12V).

 

My point was if 30V was the limit, on the AF-5X, it would not be an issue.  And Morningstar MPPT controllers are very good at maintaining that 30V limit.

Best Regards ... Joe

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

[ Edited ]

Hi again @UBNT-Ben ,  Thanks for kicking the guys into action, the info is now in the Datasheets where it is a very handy reference.  But new answers bring up questions:

 

Both the AC and AF devices described here have a minimum voltage of 20V.  Does that mean that even if we are willing to reduce the performance of the devices on their Ethernet ports from 1Gpbs to 100Mbps, we cannot use the Ubiquiti "Instant 802.3af  (Vout =16V)  ???  Sounds like no.

 

 

Ubiquiti INS-8023AF-O Instant 802.3af Outdoor Adapter

Electrical Information
Input				48V, 802.3af (with sensing capability)
Output				16V, 0.8A
Output POE method		positive 4,5; return 7,8
Ethernet ESD/Surge Protection   +/-15kV

 

 

So the question is:  What does Ubiquiti recommend as the replacement for the INS-8023AF-O ?

Best Regards ... Joe

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please


@JustJoe wrote:

Hi again @UBNT-Ben ,  Thanks for kicking the guys into action, the info is now in the Datasheets where it is a very handy reference.  But new answers bring up questions:

 

Both the AC and AF devices described here have a minimum voltage of 20V.  Does that mean that even if we are willing to reduce the performance of the devices on their Ethernet ports from 1Gpbs to 100Mbps, we cannot use the Ubiquiti "Instant 802.3af  (Vout =16V)  ???  Sounds like no.

 

 

Ubiquiti INS-8023AF-O Instant 802.3af Outdoor Adapter

Electrical Information
Input				48V, 802.3af (with sensing capability)
Output				16V, 0.8A
Output POE method		positive 4,5; return 7,8
Ethernet ESD/Surge Protection   +/-15kV

 

 

So the question is:  What does Ubiquiti recommend as the replacement for the INS-8023AF-O ?


Correct.  I would not plan on using these with AF or AC products.  I would use the injectors that come with the product or look at other switch options.  We are always working on new models as well, but nothing that we are ready to release.

 

Thanks,

Ben

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

[ Edited ]

Hi @UBNT-Ben, I hate to bug you again to ask for an older cage to be rattled.  Man Happy

 

The voltage requirements they updated above were for AC and AF just like I asked for.  Man Happy

 

But now something else dawned on me.  The non-AC PowerBeams and NanoBeams did not come out too much earlier than the AC versions.  One of the things I noticed on my test bench was that a PowerBeamM5-300 used about 30% less power than the NanobridgeM5-22 that it replaced.  That's nice.  Man Happy

 

But you know, that previous generation that included the NanoBridgeM5 was always generally accepted to work on 12-25Volts.

 

I know, the 2 families, AC and non-AC are different radio chipsets ... But that doesn't say anything about what type of voltage regulator an engineer might use to provide power.  Based on those seemingly random thoughts, would it be too much to ask that someone check and add the Vin-min and Vin-max numbers to the non-AC PowerBeams and NanoBeams and update their datasheets as well???  Because those are also the newer XW chipset from the beginning, and it would really be a kick in the pants if their voltage specs also changed from Vin-min = 12V  to 20VSvengo

 

http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/powerbeam/PowerBeam_DS.pdf

http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/nanobeam/NanoBeam_DS.pdf

Best Regards ... Joe

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Hi, i'm new to the forum. I hope I dont ask too many stupid questions.

I had a rocketM5 link whitch was running flawless for years, but I had to upgrade for interferance got worst and throughput got lower. So i went for the rocket ac lite, and I had so much problems with reconnections ad reboots. I then thought it might be an isolated issue with the lite version and after trying to solve it for weeks with ubnt I eventually went ahead and bought the rocket ac air prism units, but still reconnections and reboots are a pain. After the beta 5 firmware upgrade the reboots has almost completely dissapeared, but the reconnections are bad. Sometimes the link would last for a week with no problem, but most of the time I get about 5 reconnections a day sometimes in one hour. I never really thought it was voltage, but after reading this post I thought it might be power related(voltage) whitch brings me to my questions. Could it be because I am using 12V dc on the one site? I read that they rate the supported voltage from 20v to 26v. The other site I have 24V dc with a Morningstar regulator.

 

Thanks in advance

Johan

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please


@matrix98053 wrote:

Hi, i'm new to the forum. I hope I dont ask too many stupid questions.

I had a rocketM5 link whitch was running flawless for years, but I had to upgrade for interferance got worst and throughput got lower. So i went for the rocket ac lite, and I had so much problems with reconnections ad reboots. I then thought it might be an isolated issue with the lite version and after trying to solve it for weeks with ubnt I eventually went ahead and bought the rocket ac air prism units, but still reconnections and reboots are a pain. After the beta 5 firmware upgrade the reboots has almost completely dissapeared, but the reconnections are bad. Sometimes the link would last for a week with no problem, but most of the time I get about 5 reconnections a day sometimes in one hour. I never really thought it was voltage, but after reading this post I thought it might be power related(voltage) whitch brings me to my questions. Could it be because I am using 12V dc on the one site? I read that they rate the supported voltage from 20v to 26v. The other site I have 24V dc with a Morningstar regulator.

 

Thanks in advance

Johan


It sounds like it could very well be your problem.  That's why I am making such a big deal of at least getting this consistently into the data sheets.  If you just found it there recently on the AC radios, it is a direct result of my request at the beginning of this thread, so it was only recently updated.

 

Wouldn't you think that since Ubiquiti is selling more and more into smaller countries, areas where there may be no other electrical power than solar or wind, that Ubiquiti would have realized how important that was to at least document?

 

Doesn't make sense that such a simple oversight in documentation should be causing your customer's grief, does it @UBNT-Ben  ?  Just think of how much time it might be wasting your firmware support people and customer satisfaction?

 

@matrix98053  I believe you can find dc-dc upconverters from companies like Tycon power to take the 12V and go to 24V.  But research them carefully.  AC radios use Gbps Ethernet ports, and the only way it will negotiate a Gbps connection is if the POE / upconverter design supports it.  If its specs do not specifically say it does, I will bet it does not, and only supports up to 100Mbps

 

 

Best Regards ... Joe

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please


@JustJoe wrote:

@matrix98053 wrote:

Hi, i'm new to the forum. I hope I dont ask too many stupid questions.

I had a rocketM5 link whitch was running flawless for years, but I had to upgrade for interferance got worst and throughput got lower. So i went for the rocket ac lite, and I had so much problems with reconnections ad reboots. I then thought it might be an isolated issue with the lite version and after trying to solve it for weeks with ubnt I eventually went ahead and bought the rocket ac air prism units, but still reconnections and reboots are a pain. After the beta 5 firmware upgrade the reboots has almost completely dissapeared, but the reconnections are bad. Sometimes the link would last for a week with no problem, but most of the time I get about 5 reconnections a day sometimes in one hour. I never really thought it was voltage, but after reading this post I thought it might be power related(voltage) whitch brings me to my questions. Could it be because I am using 12V dc on the one site? I read that they rate the supported voltage from 20v to 26v. The other site I have 24V dc with a Morningstar regulator.

 

Thanks in advance

Johan


It sounds like it could very well be your problem.  That's why I am making such a big deal of at least getting this consistently into the data sheets.  If you just found it there recently on the AC radios, it is a direct result of my request at the beginning of this thread, so it was only recently updated.

 

Wouldn't you think that since Ubiquiti is selling more and more into smaller countries, areas where there may be no other electrical power than solar or wind, that Ubiquiti would have realized how important that was to at least document?

 

Doesn't make sense that such a simple oversight in documentation should be causing your customer's grief, does it @UBNT-Ben  ?  Just think of how much time it might be wasting your firmware support people and customer satisfaction?

 

@matrix98053  I believe you can find dc-dc upconverters from companies like Tycon power to take the 12V and go to 24V.  But research them carefully.  AC radios use Gbps Ethernet ports, and the only way it will negotiate a Gbps connection is if the POE / upconverter design supports it.  If its specs do not specifically say it does, I will bet it does not, and only supports up to 100Mbps

 

 


@Deleted Account is verifying this for you...we will then get into data sheet.

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Thanks for the reply Joe.

I have new hope in finding a solution to my problem.

It just so happens that I do have two batteries on that 12v tower.

All the units on that tower can work with 24v.

I will just reconfigure the batteries to 24v and then buy a 24v charger.

I will test and give feedback.

I'm with you on the importance to have this documented. I read the voltage requirements from your post.

It took me about two months of suffering to get to your post and realise it could be the 12v causing the poblem.

I have mentioned to ubnt that I had 12v on the one side and 24v on the other, but we had no discussing at all about it, so I just took it as being within specs... My correspondens was with Noel H from ubnt.

 

Thanks

Johan

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please


@matrix98053 wrote:

Thanks for the reply Joe.

I have new hope in finding a solution to my problem.

It just so happens that I do have two batteries on that 12v tower.

All the units on that tower can work with 24v.

I will just reconfigure the batteries to 24v and then buy a 24v charger.

I will test and give feedback.

I'm with you on the importance to have this documented. I read the voltage requirements from your post.

It took me about two months of suffering to get to your post and realise it could be the 12v causing the poblem.

I have mentioned to ubnt that I had 12v on the one side and 24v on the other, but we had no discussing at all about it, so I just took it as being within specs... My correspondens was with Noel H from ubnt.

 

Thanks

Johan


Beeee Careful!  2 batteries in series can be charged by  "24v" charge controller,  HOWEVER, 2 fully charged batteries will read about 2 x 13.2V = 26.4V and the charging voltage will be in the 28 volt range!... I fear these might exceed the Vin-max of the "AC" generation radios.  Research the specs of each component in your new setup carefully.  That's why you might find that a 12 to 24V DC-DC upconverter is safer (although some power gets wasted in the conversion). 

Best Regards ... Joe

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

ok, thanks

I have decided to go with the 12v to 24v converter.

Will let you know if that sorts out my problem.

 

Thanks again

regards

Johan

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

buenos dias..

 

tengo experiencia de hace un par de meses con equipos alimentados por baterias en una estacion remota hibrida (solar-eolica 24v) con controlador mppt hice mediciones en los picos de voltaje de carga en dias de mucho sol y mucho viento, llegando a 28v+ lo que provocaba que los equipos de reiniciaran.

 

para tal efecto tuve que colocar un step down dc que me regula el voltaje de salida a un voltaje de 23v constante

 

asi ya no tuve mas problemas en los equipos. 

 

 

 

 

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

Good day Joe

 

I went ahead and contacted ubnt support again about the voltage requirements for my Rocker AC air prism units.

This is the reply I got :

 

Noel H. (Ubiquiti Networks)

May 7, 09:58

Hi Johan,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, you can use 12v however the maximum Ethernet cable run would be 30 meters. I suggest to use 24V, 0.5A Gigabit PoE adapter which comes in the box and check if you'll find a performance change.

Awaiting for reply.

Thanks!

Noel H.
Ubiquiti Networks

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

I have a powerbeam AC 500 with 12 volt solar energy working fine (with gigabit connection).

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Re: POE voltage input RANGE spec for all AC devices please

[ Edited ]

@matrix98053 wrote:

Good day Joe

 

I went ahead and contacted ubnt support again about the voltage requirements for my Rocker AC air prism units.

This is the reply I got :

 

Noel H. (Ubiquiti Networks)

May 7, 09:58

Hi Johan,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, you can use 12v however the maximum Ethernet cable run would be 30 meters. I suggest to use 24V, 0.5A Gigabit PoE adapter which comes in the box and check if you'll find a performance change.

Awaiting for reply.

Thanks!

Noel H.
Ubiquiti Networks


Thanks Johan, .  12V is logical, because internally, it is unlikely any of the board hardware is operating above 5V, and they want a good margin for the board regulator to work with.  What is going on with 20-26V seems to be a desire to keep from having to deal with the natural voltage drop of the cable over longer length.

 

However, what Noel H. told you is that you can operate outside the currently published datasheet specs.  This is important because it is the way they have been playing with the number in the past and I don't think a carrier class company should do that.

 

Hi @UBNT-Ben  (and @Deleted Account ?)  How about this to make the AC datasheets very consistent, accurate, complete and more useful without adding much text  ... Where it now says:

 

Supported Voltage Range                               20-26VDC

Instead have it read:

Supported Voltage Range   20-26VDC (100m*) 12-26VDC (max 30m*)

Footnotes:
*Cat5e TOUGHCable PRO

I have the feeling now that NanoBeamM and PowerBeamM could add the exact same lines.  This would mean people could then, at the very least, swap between those products without power concerns.  Man Happy

 

(edited to add AC and M for clarity)

 

Best Regards ... Joe

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