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Senior Member
Posts: 3,822
Registered: ‎01-13-2009
Kudos: 746
Solutions: 9

Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

First off I want to let you all know I was REALLY excited on trying these Bullet M's out on a backhaul link. The results were surprisingly horrible. Here is the current setup.

- Mikrotik RB433 + R5H
- Transmitting on frequency 5600 (ZERO noise floor)
- Signal is -64db, 54Mbps TX 54Mbps RX, TURBO, and NSTREAM enabled

Actual TCP Throughput at the tower is around 40-50Mbps RX, 20-30Mbps TX

So here's what I did. COMPLETELY disconnecting the Microtik Radios and power, and plugging in the Bullets at each end, configured as Access Point WDS and Station WDS. Status on the bullets were:

-TX power 25db, signal -52db!
-TX Rate 150Mbps RX Rate 125Mbps
-Frequency 5600 (same as before)

Actual TCP Throughput = 8-10MBps RX, 1-4Mbps TX =wtf!!

As everyone will ask, YES, I've tried EVERY which setting possible, I've tried

-Changing the channel width, 40/20/10/5 (speeds got worse when lowering the channel width, almost no speed at all on 10Mhz)

-Lowering the TX power (didn't do anything)

-Yes, AUTO ACK IS ON, the link is only a little over a mile!

-Tried changing frequencies, no difference, there is no 5.4-5.6 being used where this is anyway (I've run a spectrum analysis from our canopy 5.4 SM)

- And yes, I tried forcing the Data Rates step-by-step all the way down when I saw the same consistant TCP speed until I reached MCS0, when it finally dropped to 4-5Mbps RX 1-2Mbps TX.

Every which way possible, the maximum throughput I saw peaked at 15Mbps RX and 4Mbps TX and that was with AIRMAX on, it seemed to give me a few more Mbps, but still nothing satisfactory.

As of now, we have pullet the bullet M's off the link and swtiched back to Mikrotik, and will be looking into the Mikrotik R5N cards instead. After messing around with the Bullet M's for 1/2 day trying to get decent throughput at just 1.2 miles, I don't think we'll ever touch these again. They may be fine indoors or something, I was able to push around 80-90Mbps in the office with them 20 feet apart, but just too risky for the outdoor backhaul link.
Ubiquiti Employee
Posts: 421
Registered: ‎09-29-2007
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Solutions: 13

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

WispWest --

What are you ACK settings?

Are you using autoack?
New Member
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎07-26-2009

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(


-Yes, AUTO ACK IS ON, the link is only a little over a mile!

Senior Member
Posts: 3,822
Registered: ‎01-13-2009
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Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

yes, as I mentioned, I am using auto-ack
New Member
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎03-21-2009

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

I have bad expiriance whit TDD links, only FDD microwacve link have preformance like in specification. A use some Exalt TDD profesional link at 5 Ghz a pay over 7k$ and performace its not like in specification aslo i test radwin, same story. Aslo i use Mikrotik routerbord 411AH and UBNT XR5 and I have very good performace for thet money.
I whot to bay Bullit 5 M to test but i see thet performace its poore.

I whont to UBIQUITI ing. make real test of Airmax product and put on forum, becouse as future customer we must know real performance. Aslo to make some chart list whit other similar product.
New Member
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎08-22-2009

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

You should have both links much better than this.. RB433AH with 5GHZ turbo + nstreme should give you at least 50+ mbps half duplex with that signal level, at -55 you should get quite easily at least 72mbps half duplex.
We usually prefer XR5 over R5H on backhauls but at such a distance (you talking about 1KM) you should have no problem at all. If your rate is 54Mbps check RX/TX CCQ, if it's not 100% you are either getting interferences or one you cards is damaged.
Try fiddling with NSTREME settings too (framing policy and size) as you will get different perfomances with different settings, and each link is pretty a story by itself. If you're using a plain 433 (not 433AH) expect quite less througput, but if you get no interferences you should get at least the same throughput on TX and RX test.

About the Bullet M, we just tested it today, both in lab test and production test, over a 3 Km link... didn't have enough time to test longer links at the moment.
We got the same results in both situations, even if outdoor test was performed on a production enviroment with at least other 3 WISP in the area, and the RF in the area is pretty crowded.
Performances have been quite like expected by Bullet datasheet, signal level was in the -60 area, tcp throughput was about 98Mbps half duplex with airmax off, about 85/92 mbps with airmax on (jperf test, 50 concurrent sessions, tcp).
We also tried a full duplex jperf test, reaching 50/54 mbps full duplex, tcp, airmax off, jperf 100 concurrent sessions.
CCQ 100%, Airmax quality reported 95-98%, Airmax capacity 43/45%,
TX/RX rate 150/135
I do have a screenshot of both the airmax test and connection status during the tests, but it doesn't seem to be possible to attach it to the message :?

Note: if you test on single session you will get from 6mbps to about 30 mbps (at least that's my experience) with the Bullet, you really have to use multiple data streams to put it under pressure
Bye,
Ricky
New Member
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎03-21-2009

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

Its good performance.
Tell me latency.
New Member
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎08-22-2009

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

Its good performance.
Tell me latency.


At full link usage latency goes up to 50/70 ms at 40 mhz channels, over 100 if you use 20 mhz channels or less.. didn't test too much though, as i expect latency to grow quite a little bit when you saturate the link (and the whole point of the test was saturating the link)... i think it would be much more intersting to see how latency behaves on daily use, when link is under pressure, but not saturated. With little (less thank 50mbps hdx) or no traffic latency was stable in the 1 to 3 ms area (but again, it's no news, you can expect this from any link running almos unloaded).
We plan to put the first unit in production next week, we just have to find some backhauls on the nextwork loaded enough to be worth to test, and backed up enough so that if something goes wrong we can switch easily without affecting customers.
Senior Member
Posts: 3,822
Registered: ‎01-13-2009
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Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

I wasn't complaining about the Mikrotik links speed, just the Bullet M. Maybe I'll hold on to these bullets until the new V5.1 firmware is released, or is it?
Ancient Member
Posts: 30,000
Registered: ‎03-17-2008
Kudos: 5969
Solutions: 128

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

Turn off Auto ACK, it hoses my 22 mile link.
WHT = Short Form Acronym for "You couldn't handle me even if I came with instructions!"
Well engineered projects are indistinguishable from crazy ideas.

Speed, distance, reliability, cost...Pick three.
...World's First Ubiquiti AirMax WISP....
New Member
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎08-22-2009

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

I wasn't complaining about the Mikrotik links speed, just the Bullet M.


I didn't mean to compare the two Man Very Happy i mentioned what you could get from MT just because i feel you're not getting what you should expect from the MT link too ->>> you may have some RF interference problems in the are that do not allow you to get all you can from either the Bullet AND the MT Man Very Happy
Bye,
Ricky
Regular Member
Posts: 716
Registered: ‎06-27-2008
Kudos: 147
Solutions: 3

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

wispwest...how can you achieve 40~50mbit TCP on a 54mbit link, even with nstream and tweaks?
Regular Member
Posts: 616
Registered: ‎09-18-2008
Kudos: 28
Solutions: 1

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

wispwest...how can you achieve 40~50mbit TCP on a 54mbit link, even with nstream and tweaks?

like this
Member
Posts: 109
Registered: ‎04-03-2008
Kudos: 1

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

wispwest...how can you achieve 40~50mbit TCP on a 54mbit link, even with nstream and tweaks?


he was using turbo 40mhz channel size which means 108 over the air throughput.

wisp west... this link that was running -52 did you have clear LOS? and what were you using to test bandwidth on the link?
--
Pond
Established Member
Posts: 1,430
Registered: ‎03-16-2008
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Solutions: 1

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

2 RB433AH/XR5/nstreame 10km very bad freznel, 1 end pointing into a spruce tree, 29db grids. I get a fluctuating link of 28-39mb/s @ 20mhz.

2 nanostation5 LOS good freznel 1km, I get 44mb/s solid @ 40Mhz

2 PS5's 2km 6 houses in the way lots of power lines a few branches lots of noise. I get 44mb/s solid @ 40mhz

All tests are done with filezilla ftp server and filezilla ftp clients 1 stream, passive.

I plan to change first link to bulletM's to test difference. And later want to try dish & rocket on same link. I expect to see 40-50mb/s on bulletM and would love it if the rocket and dish would take it to 50-70mb/s. And the PS5 link is my primary feed, so would love to double it's throughput with rocket and dish.
Ancient Member
Posts: 30,000
Registered: ‎03-17-2008
Kudos: 5969
Solutions: 128

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

Have you tried it with Auto ACK turned off ? ? ? ?

Even with AirOS V5, it drags my connection down.

I may have inadvertently suggested in another post that it was all right to have Auto ACK on only one side. It might have been with an earlier firmware, but even with AirOS 5, it still rips apart my 22 mile link.
WHT = Short Form Acronym for "You couldn't handle me even if I came with instructions!"
Well engineered projects are indistinguishable from crazy ideas.

Speed, distance, reliability, cost...Pick three.
...World's First Ubiquiti AirMax WISP....
Regular Member
Posts: 616
Registered: ‎09-18-2008
Kudos: 28
Solutions: 1

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(


2 nanostation5 LOS good freznel 1km, I get 44mb/s solid @ 40Mhz
2 PS5's 2km 6 houses in the way lots of power lines a few branches lots of noise. I get 44mb/s solid @ 40mhz

you are the first on this forum who claim more than 35mbps with ubnt products.
Previous Employee
Posts: 9,171
Registered: ‎08-17-2007
Kudos: 24

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

First off I want to let you all know I was REALLY excited on trying these Bullet M's out on a backhaul link. The results were surprisingly horrible. Here is the current setup.

- Mikrotik RB433 + R5H
- Transmitting on frequency 5600 (ZERO noise floor)
- Signal is -64db, 54Mbps TX 54Mbps RX, TURBO, and NSTREAM enabled

Actual TCP Throughput at the tower is around 40-50Mbps RX, 20-30Mbps TX

So here's what I did. COMPLETELY disconnecting the Microtik Radios and power, and plugging in the Bullets at each end, configured as Access Point WDS and Station WDS. Status on the bullets were:

-TX power 25db, signal -52db!
-TX Rate 150Mbps RX Rate 125Mbps
-Frequency 5600 (same as before)

Actual TCP Throughput = 8-10MBps RX, 1-4Mbps TX =wtf!!

As everyone will ask, YES, I've tried EVERY which setting possible, I've tried

-Changing the channel width, 40/20/10/5 (speeds got worse when lowering the channel width, almost no speed at all on 10Mhz)

-Lowering the TX power (didn't do anything)

-Yes, AUTO ACK IS ON, the link is only a little over a mile!

-Tried changing frequencies, no difference, there is no 5.4-5.6 being used where this is anyway (I've run a spectrum analysis from our canopy 5.4 SM)

- And yes, I tried forcing the Data Rates step-by-step all the way down when I saw the same consistant TCP speed until I reached MCS0, when it finally dropped to 4-5Mbps RX 1-2Mbps TX.

Every which way possible, the maximum throughput I saw peaked at 15Mbps RX and 4Mbps TX and that was with AIRMAX on, it seemed to give me a few more Mbps, but still nothing satisfactory.

As of now, we have pullet the bullet M's off the link and swtiched back to Mikrotik, and will be looking into the Mikrotik R5N cards instead. After messing around with the Bullet M's for 1/2 day trying to get decent throughput at just 1.2 miles, I don't think we'll ever touch these again. They may be fine indoors or something, I was able to push around 80-90Mbps in the office with them 20 feet apart, but just too risky for the outdoor backhaul link.


Hey Wisp,

How are you measuring the throughput?

Thanks,

Mik
Previous Employee
Posts: 9,171
Registered: ‎08-17-2007
Kudos: 24

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(


2 nanostation5 LOS good freznel 1km, I get 44mb/s solid @ 40Mhz
2 PS5's 2km 6 houses in the way lots of power lines a few branches lots of noise. I get 44mb/s solid @ 40mhz

you are the first on this forum who claim more than 35mbps with ubnt products.


I havent seen more then 35Mbps TCP with Nano or PS.

Thanks,

Mike
Previous Employee
Posts: 9,171
Registered: ‎08-17-2007
Kudos: 24

Re: Bullet M not beating Mikrotik RB433 + R5H in Speed :(

Also WISP,

Please post your configuration files from both sides of the link.

Thanks,

Mike